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The Place for Connection
Welcome to The Place for Connection, where I believe that connection is the CURE – the podcast where soul meets science, and healing takes centre stage.
Hosted by psychologist, breathwork practitioner, and all-around vibe curator, Melissa Beaton, this podcast dives deep into the art and science of connection – to yourself, your community, and the big beautiful world around you.
Each episode is a juicy mix of expert wisdom and heartfelt stories from healers of ALL kinds: psychologists, bodyworkers, doulas, yogis, spiritual guides, and even the ones who heal with music, art, and a bit of magic. We’re here to inspire, uplift, and get real about what it takes to live a connected, purpose-driven life.
This isn’t your average self-help podcast. It’s a space where radical authenticity meets practical tools, where curiosity replaces judgment, and where the real work feels less like a chore and more like a calling.
Why listen?
Because you’ll leave every episode feeling seen, heard, and ready to take the next step in your own healing journey. Whether you’re a professional, a healer, someone seeking growth, or just here for the good vibes – this is the place for you.
Want to work with Melissa?
Reach out via the website contact page at www.zensohouse.com or instagram @zensohouse
The Place for Connection
Healing Through Internal Family Systems with Megan Pasierbek
Get ready for an inspiring deep dive into the power of Internal Family Systems (IFS) with Megan Pasierbek—IFS therapist, coach, and immersive meditation facilitator. In this episode, Megan shares her personal journey through mental health challenges and how IFS therapy completely transformed her life.
From navigating bipolar recovery to uncovering the hidden wisdom of our inner parts, Megan brings a wealth of knowledge on self-compassion, emotional integration, and deep healing. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone curious about how to build a more harmonious inner world and healthier relationships.
💡 What you’ll discover in this episode:
✨ Megan’s personal transformation through IFS and bipolar recovery
✨ How IFS therapy helps you understand and embrace your inner parts
✨ The magic of “parts language” and how it transforms relationships
✨ The role of community and connection in healing
✨ Practical, beginner-friendly ways to start your IFS journey
✨ Why self-compassion is the key to lasting change
🌀 Whether you’re new to IFS or looking to deepen your practice, this episode will leave you with insightful, actionable tools to start creating more inner peace today!
👉 Want to work with Megan?
Find her at www.meganpasierbek.com.au and follow her on Instagram: @mentalhealthcoachmegs
👉 Want to connect with Melissa?
Head to www.zensohouse.com and follow @zensohouse on instagram.
💛 Connection is the cure!
Hello and welcome to the Place for Connection podcast. Connection is the cure Connection to self, connection to others, connection to your body and connection to the environment. Today I'm joined by Megan Pasierbeck Pasierbeck yeah, pasierbeck, I should have checked, that. Who's going to talk to me? All things internal family systems. So first we'll start a little bit about you and what brought you on the journey to start working in this space of internal family systems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've had a kind of really, I guess lifelong journey with my own mental health and I had always kind of been interested in personal development and I'd been in and out of therapy since I was maybe 21 and then I was kind of on a bit of a deeper journey. At the time I discovered my internal family systems in 2021 when.
Speaker 2:I was part of like a container that was for women who, or for people who'd struggled with, say, eating disorders or food addiction, and I'd been in that container. And then there was this opportunity to do this IFS course, which, looking back, was basically the same content as my level one training, but prior to that, this is a big part of my story, so I'll just add in in 2019, I was diagnosed with bipolar type 2 and, after struggling with depression on and off for most of my life, I went on the medication rollercoaster. And then, in 2021, there was considerations for me conceiving, so I had gone off the medication and it just so happened that the week I was going off the medication, I stumbled across a book called Med Free Bipolar and I thought, hey, can't hurt to read this. So I did, and it was this woman in America who had she claimed to be a completely recovered psych patient for 10 years and had much more severe bipolar than what I'd ever experienced, but had done so through supplementation. So I took the list of supplements to my naturopath who put me on them, and I just felt so much better on the supps than I ever did on the meds Wow, and it wasn't really an intention to stay off them, but I just found the SUPs had worked for me.
Speaker 2:And then, through that experience, and then also discovering IFS and noticing how much of a shift that I experienced like I'd done lots of therapy but I hadn't really started to heal my trauma properly and I was just starting to notice how much more regulated I felt and how much more present I could be with people. And it was such an amazing shift and while I was studying it, like just in this group, they said form a mastermind if you would like to practice. So we did and I met with these women every single week and we would practice IFS for like up until, I think, the end of 2023. We kept practicing and it just kept showing me more and more layers, like just peeling back these layers and through that journey and healing a lot of my trauma because I did grow up in, you know, a family with a lot of intergenerational trauma and there was just a lot of physical and emotional abuse to be able to heal a lot of that and heal process a lot of my grief.
Speaker 2:I truly attribute that to the fact that, like today, I haven't had a single bipolar episode since January 2020. Wow, and I think that if I walked into a psychiatrist's office today, I wouldn't even meet the criteria anymore. Wow, and it was just after that experience. And then in April 2023 I think it was I was doing a journey and in that journey like came through was you need to share your story and you need to go and study IFS. Like you need to do this.
Speaker 1:This is kind of what you like put on earth to do, wow, yeah wow, I'm so curious, like about what you were doing before as well, but I feel like that you know that that's probably my own ego being like, oh so, so how did this change your life? Because I know for lots of people when they go on a journey and they have an experience that can change their entire pathway, but I feel like that's kind of another conversation. I'm curious, like if you were to try and explain IFS internal family systems to someone who had never heard of it, didn't know what it was, how, how would you do that?
Speaker 2:so internal family systems is built on the belief that we are made up of all these parts of ourselves, and a really belatable way to explain that to someone that's never heard. I say you know that part. When you wake up in the morning, there's a part of you that wants to get up and be productive, but there's also another part of you that wants to stay in bed for another hour, like they're just parts of you, because a lot of people will hear it and go. Is that family therapy? Or if they hear about the parts they're like, does that mean I have multiple personalities?
Speaker 2:yeah, so yeah, I just explain it in that way and then you know, explain the different types of parts. So, like the self, so that's who you really are underneath all your conditioning and your trauma. And then we have protector parts. So they might be show up as big emotions or thoughts that you have about like, like it might be judgments, it might be something that you're doing in your life that might feel like it's self-sabotage or it's not helpful. We do have also protector parts that are very helpful and then you've got exiles underneath, which is kind of like you're wounded inner child parts and generally our protectors can be running our lives most of the time but they're trying to protect those exiles underneath and IFS helps you to heal those parts so you can become more self-led, so you can become the more naturally confident and calm version of yourself and more responsive rather than reactive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I myself have worked with a patient with dissociative identity disorder and once I was introduced to internal family systems, the dissociative identity disorder presentation made so much more sense to me and I'd almost wished I'd learned to think of dissociative identity disorder from the framework of internal family systems, because what it is is essentially when people relate to themselves as different, as different people, right, and and those different people operate at different times and usually the person isn't kind of aware of what's happening at the time until after the fact.
Speaker 1:Sometimes they can be conscious mostly unconscious of what happens. And I think when I, when I stumbled across internal family systems, I was like, oh, this is what's happening. It's like a part of them is in operation but perhaps their psyche isn't integrated enough to be able to consciously discern what that part's doing, what their function is. But just so interesting, like in terms of your own experience of internal family systems, when was the point when you really had a breakthrough moment and and had a sense of, oh, actually this isn't like just a neurological problem? I have which we tend to think of bipolar affective disorder as like this is a neurological problem, it's genetic, you know, you can't change it. What was the breakthrough moment for you?
Speaker 2:I feel like there's been so many.
Speaker 2:I think the reading the med free bipolar was a big moment for me because when I was diagnosed it was like such an ego death, because it was like, oh my gosh, who am I? Has everything I've done up until this point been a mood episode and like I was so afraid of the stigma. And you know I was so afraid of the stigma and you know I was so afraid to tell people and I held so much shame around it. And I wouldn't say IFS necessarily got me to have those breakthroughs with the bipolar as such. It was just, I guess, a noticing. You know, when you look back at something or you're having an experience and you're like, wow, I would have reacted really differently 12 months ago. I'm actually really regulated right now. Oh wow, I don't have shame around this anymore.
Speaker 2:Like it just you notice those changes in yourself and you feel like you can be you. You feel like you can be your authentic self and if other people make judgments of that like that's their stuff and you don't kind of buy into that anymore.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's probably been the biggest thing and then just like those small moments of just noticing, especially after being on medication, when you're on medication, like most meds didn't work for me at all. If anything, they made me worse. Lithium was helpful. When I went on lithium I was severely depressed, but the thing was it took away the bad feelings but it also took away the good. Like it takes away the joy. It feels like you're walking through a life with a veil on and suddenly I could feel the joy again and I could feel those emotions and be present with them and not overwhelmed. Like there's so many little gifts, like along the way. I wouldn't say there's one specific breakthrough, but just lots of them.
Speaker 2:But learning IFS and knowing, like what you were saying about the dissociative parts, like I love that about IFS is that it is non-pathologising. It's amazing. Yeah, to look at all the parts of you and you know, say, if it's like a symptom of bipolar, like it's just a protector part, and there's generally very good reason as to why these people are protected by these parts of themselves.
Speaker 1:I have someone very close to me in my life who has a diagnosis of bipolar affective disorder and has huge mood disturbance, and it just makes me want to go oh, just go and see Megan and yeah, I think that for people who are pathologized in this way and naturally in my work as a psychologist I see people with huge amounts of psychopathology and you know, in some cases that can be really helpful because it can get them access to resources and tools that they wouldn't otherwise get.
Speaker 1:You know through NDIS, which is more of an intervention type model, which is super helpful sometimes and then other times it can be very shaming and it can have people feeling like, oh, there's something inherently wrong with me. And one of my very good peers talks about IFS as being such a nice model to describe, like, like the protector parts or the exiles to people who perhaps don't have the structure intellectually to make sense of what's happening to them internally, and that it can give language, yes, and a sense of meaning to these experiences that they have, where these parts like we'll talk about them as like mini versions of ourselves. I tend to think of it as like my eight-year-old self or my 12-year-old self that gets triggered in certain situations. In terms of your own experiences with clients, what is it like to walk on that journey with them and see them do this for themselves? It's so good.
Speaker 2:I just love it so much. It's amazing, I think, what you're speaking to about giving the clients language, but I find that in terms of client breakthroughs, that's sometimes one of the biggest ones. They go oh, that's just a part of me, it's not all of me, it really does disarm any shame they might have around it. They might have an angry part and they're like particularly women I think women struggle to express anger and if they do, they feel terrible for it. But it's like no, that's just a part of you and it's doing a job, it's trying to protect you, and they're like wow, that's just a part of me. And then they can create a little bit of separation and not feel so flooded by that emotion as well, which is just a great way to help them cope with things too. But also just like throughout the process, because when people have their self energy and whenever I run a session, I always take people through it like a grounding practice. First, because it helps them to calm and get into self. But it's not. It's beautiful to witness and I love it so much, but it's also it's not me doing it, it's them because their self is there and it's like their self is kind of running the session. They'll just tell me what the part said and then it can lead me to the next question.
Speaker 2:I never got wondering what to do next because their system will lead and like you can't really go wrong if you let their system lead. And that includes if the protector part comes in and goes, no, not talking, it's like, okay, we never, ever push past that. But like seeing them, you know, interact with their parts, understand them, they have these moments where they're like, oh wow, it's just trying to help me. Oh, wow, it's because of this memory. I forgot all about that when that teacher said that to me, but it's still affecting them. And then being able to take, you know, go and speak to their exile and give them what they need, and then like what their parts come out with, like when they say what new role they would like, or you know, the younger self, even the wisdom that they have in internally is just incredible and that's so empowering for them to see that, that that's coming from them. They're like, wow, this is so cool.
Speaker 1:I heard you use the term self. I wonder if you could explain what that means to you and I guess different people have different versions of these. But from your understanding and from ifs's understanding, how do you see the self?
Speaker 2:so ifs explain it as self-energy. Well, it's who you are, without you know all of your conditioning or your trauma. And it's richard schwartz who is kind of the discoverer of ifs he describes as the eight C's. Let me try and remember them Compassion, calm, creativity, curiosity, clarity, connectedness. I always get to six and I can't remember the other two.
Speaker 1:It's okay, it's not a test Google it guys.
Speaker 2:But that's a really good explanation. But I like to say other words. What makes you feel like your own self? A lot of people use the term soul or love or flow state or you know, just like whatever. Whenever you're feeling like yourself and you're feeling really good and you're feeling really open and connected to other people and you're responsive, not reactive, all those kinds of things like something. Often people feel like when they're really immersed in their work or they're being creative, or some people might be going for a surf or and they're just like in the groove of it, but like that's accessing self-energy. Or when you know your friend tells you something really vulnerable and you just feel so much compassion for them and it's like that's self-energy too. My favorite is curiosity and I always start with that, like often start with that. You know, just try and access within you a gentle curiosity.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people think that's like the part needs to tell me and I'm like just gentle yeah, gentle curiosity yeah oh my gosh, that's one of the biggest things I learned from my own therapist, who happens to work in the method that I use, which is intensive, short-term dynamic psychotherapy and also uses internal family systems, and he taught me such patience with myself and what that opened up for me was just such unreal spiritual, connected experiences, like where I was accessing I guess people would call it.
Speaker 1:God or higher power, and so it's really interesting how I've mixed like my sense of of self with also, like God and I don't know people might call you know, guardian angels or whatever your language is around it, but it's just been absolutely like mind blowing, how much the experience of relating to these parts of myself and where I feel that in my body what that's activating also then activated this like capacity to, to move beyond just the self and what that did also with my client work and my relationships and my connectedness.
Speaker 1:It's just, I think, like when we talk about IFS, it can feel very cognitive and I think what it opens up for me is something much deeper. And and I've heard rumors I don't know how true it is about Richard Swartz having the method downloaded to him from spirit, um, maybe during a psychedelic journey, I'm not sure or a journey of some description, and I don't know if that's true. So I'm sorry, richard Swartz, if I'm talking shit, it's just a rumour, yeah, but it's just really. I also find that deeply fascinating, like how he came across the method, what the rationale was, because as a psychologist, we come from such an evidence-based environment where it's like we need the rationale, we need the facts and then, at the same time, can the data from the client not be the evidence right um?
Speaker 1:yeah so I guess that's like my internal battle, like in terms of healing relationships with others. What have you found about IFS that that helps a client to be more, I guess, connected with others or present with others that you think is important for perhaps listeners to know or understand?
Speaker 2:yeah, one of the first things I say to people if they're wanting to know about IFS or they just want like a tip is the first thing I say is use parts language. You can use that in all your relationships. So any person you are dealing with you can, rather than saying to them this is a very different experience to say, I'm really angry at you because of what you did yesterday, versus there's a part of me that feels really angry about what happened yesterday. Could we talk about that later? Like that person is far more likely to be able to receive that and you're also using parts language. So then you're separating a little bit from that part, knowing it's just a part of you being regulated enough to have the discussion. Like that's a game changer.
Speaker 2:But in terms of relationships and I have a lot of clients I'm not a relationship therapist but I have a lot of clients ask me for relationship advice but one of the things I recommend is Richard Schwartz's book you Are the One You've Been Waiting For and he talks in the book about how when we're fighting with our partner, it's not us that's fighting with our partner and vice versa, it's our exiles. So if you can just imagine two five-year-olds having an argument. They're not going to get very far.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what we're doing when we're fighting with our partner. It's our exiles that are being triggered and it might be your five-year-old self that something happened to them where they received a message or they interpreted a situation that I'm not lovable or I'm not good enough, and when those parts of us are triggered, it's very activating, it's very overwhelming and it will overwhelm the system if it needs to, and that's just your system doing its job.
Speaker 2:And so then you have protectors that come in that might be angry or might be like really upset or they might shut down. Yeah, yeah yeah, and so like whenever clients ask me I'm like listen to this book or read this book because it's really good advice and it that book basically talks about that in order for us to have good relationships, we need to do the work to heal our exile.
Speaker 1:So then we're not projecting those things onto our partner and expecting them to feel the wound of you know, I'm not good enough or I'm not lovable like that is our work oh, like, honestly, when I listen to you speak, megan, it it's like hearing, like my own history of my parts and the reworking that I've done and and and then how that's also shifted, how much less I project onto my beautiful husband poor thing, he's tolerated me for a long time and my parts, I should say, but I really love the language that you use around like a part of me is really angry with you for x, y and z, because because I think that also, you know, helps us to show that that's not the only thing we feel towards our partner like that, there might be anger and there's also a lot of love or a lot of grief and perhaps inadvertently, through communicating in that way, we also communicate that which I think is really, uh, transformational, because I think it's really hard for someone to receive something like that and then project back because it's like, oh, she's not totally angry with me, it's just a part of her.
Speaker 1:So I really like that when you talk about the book, you're the one. You are the one you've been waiting for yeah um, I remember in a therapy session of mine where my therapist used IFS. He used that experience of like me, adult, me taking, you know, that part of me home my ex. I guess it's my exile, is it?
Speaker 1:yeah, I don't know, because I haven't trained in the method. I've read a few books, um, and at that point in time I was like fuck, yes, like I don't have to wait for a savior, like I am my own savior. And it was just like transformational in terms of then how I started to relate to myself, like in terms of your work with clients, what is that like to see a client move from perhaps a victim starts where they're, like waiting, you know, for prince charming or a job or money winning the lottery to come and rescue them and then taking that self-initiative, self-determination on, like. What's that like as a therapist, to see?
Speaker 2:It's so amazing to see and also for them, one of my favourite things a client can come back and say to me they're like I've started using IFS on myself and I'm like, yes, that's the goal.
Speaker 2:Like that's what we want you to do and being able to like go back. One of the things I do when we're doing like what we call an unburdening process, when we find the memory that is kind of causing this protector to act in the way that it's acting, I get you as your adult self to in that moment, because often they'll feel unsafe or unloved or whatever it is. Whatever they needed in that moment. Can you give them to that now? So it's like you are visualizing yourself giving your five-year-old self a hug or telling them that there's nothing wrong with them or reassuring them in whatever way that you need to, and I don't tell them what to say.
Speaker 2:I just their self-energy lead that because they know they were there, or their younger self was there and is still kind of in that time and space, if you will, but them being able to do that and then bring their younger self out of that situation and do the unburdening process like releasing the belief that they're holding it.
Speaker 2:Just it's so transformational and when you watch them do it, I do encourage my clients to shut their eyes because they can go inward.
Speaker 2:I watch their entire face change, like their face softens, their shoulders drops, like you've been carrying that around for 30 years and now it's gone and it changes your physiological state like it's quite amazing.
Speaker 2:And then I always say to them if it's helpful because I find it very helpful, I give my clients questions to ask their parts every day for the next seven days because it helps with the integration process. But I say, if you can say if it was your five-year-old, so if you worked on, get a photo of your five-year-old self or yourself around that age and talk to her, because I find it much easier to connect and I do that myself. I've got photos of myself at certain ages and when I can talk to her and when I'm feeling like is there a big emotion coming up in me or I'm really anxious, I'm like is that me or no, it's actually my five-year-old self, and then I'll talk to her and it's like you become the gentle parent for your younger selves, all these younger versions of yourself. And I think that that's what I've said that to someone before like we find the methodology or the modality that we most need ourselves.
Speaker 1:And for me, what IFS has gifted me is I've been able to reparent myself and that's the thing I needed the most and once you can do that, like your system is so much calmer yeah, your energy is so calm, like being in the space with you just feels so regulating and and then so to to be someone who's well versed in what you know quite serious mental health issues look and sound like like bipolar affective disorder. I mean, it seems so far removed from the person I'm sitting with here today. Like, what is that like for you to see your own, and I would call it like a transformation right.
Speaker 1:Because that's like massive to go from this identity to to then someone who's leading the path for other people. Yeah, to do this work what's that?
Speaker 2:like it's pretty cool, but I don't really think about it. Like I just I don't know, this is just something that feels bigger than me and it's like I didn't really know. I was working with you know, blake. I was working with Blake when I did that journey, where it was like you need to go and share your story and the reason why was because I'd moved through a lot of that shame with the bipolar. And then during that group program, I remember one of the journal prompts that day was what are you most proud of? And I shared a little bit of my story on my just my little video in the telegram group and I said, you know, like I had been diagnosed with bipolar, like I haven't had a single episode this is probably back in 2022. And I just said I'm proud of myself. Like that's pretty cool, that I kind of did.
Speaker 2:I felt forged my own path and you know, I haven't even been medicated and I'm well and I've been well. And that was just such a big thing for me because when I was diagnosed, I just thought I can't do anything anymore, like because I didn't know about this condition. I thought, well, I could start a business or I could go do this, but then depression could come along and wipe me out again, and so I just had no confidence anymore and it was like showing myself that I could move past that. Then sharing that story, and I actually had a number of the group like private message me after and a couple of them said your story made me cry, like that's amazing.
Speaker 2:And then, I was like, oh, there's something in that. And then I was like, after that journey I was like, no, you need to share your story. But also like remember how alone you felt in that time and and if I didn't know about Kelly Brogan's work, like I didn't know about any other path. And I mean I know they're all doing the best they can and all these doctors think they are doing the right thing and they just want to help people. But my psychiatrist had the energy of a disapproving school teacher and it just it further perpetuated that shame and it further perpetuated.
Speaker 2:I remember I was going on a trip and I was having a bit of a high at the time and it was like already booked, it was done, I'm going. And I went and saw him a couple of days before because it was just a regular, um kind of check-in, and then he's like I don't think you should go and I was like well, I'm going yeah, yeah, absolutely, he's just like well, I don't think that's a good idea, but it was like really, and I just thought I left there quite angry and I was like now I just feel like I don't want to tell you when I'm having a high.
Speaker 2:Oh, 100% right Because you're going to like be disapproving of it. And it's like imagine how many people are having those experiences and how alone they feel. And I just thought I've got to tell this story because people need to know that there's another way and if what's working for you or what's not working for you now like you can explore outside that box oh, 100% like I.
Speaker 1:I haven't been on the same journey as you, but I've been on something um of my own quest to uncover, you know my own triggers or difficulties and what helps or doesn't help. And it's just unreal how much when we take sovereignty for our own wellness and start initiating things that make sense for us, feel aligned, help us move more in directions that you are affirming rather than judging, and sometimes that can look like traditional psychiatry. I mean, I'm so blessed that I have a couple of psychiatrists who are just fucking legends who I work alongside with, and I also meet a lot of people who've had your experience. So it's like where's that middle ground like? And I think it really is my biggest learning as a, as a therapist, is how much can I trust that the that the person knows?
Speaker 1:the perfect thing for them, yeah, and can we just create safety in their body, which I loved you talking about the body in terms of that intervention where you see their body relax and it's like all that you know, energy, that anxiety that's been keeping them stuck and tight and diseased, you know, because this kind of energy causes such chronic disease. You know, release how much more that frees up creativity and fun and spontaneity and play and sexuality and exploration. And I think it's just. I recently had a bit of a verbal tantrum on a list serve that I'm on with some other psychotherapists and um, and and my main message at the end was can we trust in clients to know what they need for them moment to moment, whether that's medication, whether that's somatic practice, whether it's yoga, whether it's hiking up a mountain or taking psychedelics, or you know that essentially, we know the perfect thing for us. It's just can we get regulated enough to know what that is? And what I'm hearing from you is ifs is a great tool to create that regulation in the body yeah so that then people can reclaim, you know their autonomy and know absolutely
Speaker 2:and the right path for them yeah, and I also think, yes, it's a great tool to start helping you regulate if you're not there, and I get it because I spent most of my life in fight or flight not knowing that. Yeah, but it's also that, and you talk about this peeling back, that conditioning, and we're a lot of us, particularly women, we're taught not to trust our bodies.
Speaker 2:We're taught not to trust ourselves through our conditioning, and so then it's like we want people to know that they have the answers within them, but it's like getting them them to that place. It it requires regulation, but it also requires that peeling back.
Speaker 1:I call it an excavation because we're peeling back all those layers, yeah yeah yeah, oh man.
Speaker 1:I go on excavating missions every day with my clients and it's something you can tell by my reaction because I you know, was raised in that catholic, yeah, private school environment where we were certainly conditioned to behave like good women and good women behaved in certain ways.
Speaker 1:And I was actually connecting with a peer of mine on the weekend who facilitated an experience with me and and she and I were talking about this and resonating with that whole repression. Yes, and for those of you who don't know, like repression is really where we, we, we stop sharing or experiencing or being with our internal impulses, feelings, motivations, and it's like we relate to them as problematic or something to be exiled, when they're all normal, like it's all part of being a human. We're complicated, we all have, and I was just chatting with you and Dean, who runs the Nest about this, which is where we're recording, um, about you know that we all have impulses that are, you know, violent and, um, sexually deviant, and it's like how much can we allow all of those parts to operate inside of us without being harsh or judgmental of them, and just and just learn? You know, what are you trying to tell me? What do you want? What you want me to know?
Speaker 2:um, so, I just, yeah, let them be there. Yeah, parts that come up and you know, I might do this little inventory. I'm like, okay, what's present for me? I can feel maybe some emotion going on in my system and I'm like, okay, I can see my inner critics here and there's another part here and like, even if they're kind of I mean, I've gotten a lot better at it through this work but even if they're not, I guess, socially acceptable parts, I'm just like, okay, like, I see you, I hear you, you're welcome here. And.
Speaker 2:I have clients in sessions. They're like, oh, this part's coming up and they're like, oh, it's really annoying. I'm just like, I just want that part to know. They're welcome. And that's the thing.
Speaker 2:When we try and suppress parts of ourselves, it A takes so much energy. So if you're someone that goes to bed at night and you're so exhausted and you don't know why, you're probably trying to suppress a whole bunch of parts. So there's that piece. But also if you think about, like, say, a child is a really good example, if a child is like screaming, or even if you're in an argument with someone and you're saying something to them and they're just not hearing you and they're just not understanding you, often your instinct is to get louder and our parts are the same. So if you're going to try and like, push it away, like it's just going to feel more and more intense, I use your inner critic as an example. But I say this to people and people think I'm mad. But like your inner critic, it's like there and it's so loud, but rather than trying to push away, because when it says things it's quite awful, and you're like, oh, I don't want, want to hear that.
Speaker 2:But imagine giving your inner critic a hug and just watch what happens in your system. Or even an angry part like that's what it needs. It's actually in pain.
Speaker 1:Give it a hug I've got goosebumps yeah, yeah because those parts are often just so pained yeah, and they're just trying to help us, no matter what they're doing.
Speaker 2:I always say, like, even if you've got a part that you don't like, hate the behavior, but don't hate the part, because the part is just trying to protect you yeah, I even like, often invite people to relate to, like their aggressive or sadistic impulses, as, like, what is this anger trying to communicate here with you?
Speaker 1:and I probably talk more about the emotion and the impulse of what that, what that's showing you, what that's revealing about the relationship, the situation, your, your life, you know your mental state, and it's really interesting to see how, then, that helps people reframe like that, whether that's a part or a feeling, whatever language you use, you know it's really powerful for people to see that's functional. Yeah.
Speaker 1:These parts are functional. They help me operate, they help me get through life, and when we've had very traumatic histories, then it makes sense why perhaps these are more, you know, operate in certain ways where maybe we get really depressed and we get suicidal, like from your understanding. How do you explain that suicidality or that depression to people who are working? You know from an IFS framework.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just a part. Yeah, like people are afraid of that and like I will talk to this. But IFS is really gaining some popularity, which is wonderful it is. But I think there's a lot of people out there trying to practice it and they haven't actually been trained in it and if you're not that familiar with it, when you're actually working with IFS, particularly with exiles, it can trigger other parts in the system and that can mean a part might get triggered that's suicidal.
Speaker 2:There's also parts that can get triggered that can self-harm and it's because that emotion it's just a bit too much so like, yeah, you have to practice it in a self way, in a safe way, but like those parts are just trying to protect you from something and it might just be that there's an exile underneath. That's very tender, so we can work with it. But just, I always say this when things are very tender, like go slower, move a little bit slower and just we never push past it.
Speaker 2:Like maybe ask it what it's afraid of, can you offer it some compassion? Like it's just trying to protect you. And yeah, don't go any further than what your system allows. Like, maybe touch on it, but then come back to it later on. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like that real gentle approach, like almost like what we would do with like a wounded animal, right yeah like showing it, you know, some love, but not being too intense and again with our parts, like relating to them in that kind of gentle to and fro. I'm here, yeah, I love you, I accept you and I also accept if you're not quite ready to reveal yourself.
Speaker 1:I liked your mention about whether or not you know someone's trained in a method, versus when they're kind of cowboying it and just kind of experimenting. Cowboying it and just kind of experimenting, like are there any dangers in in practicing IFS when perhaps you haven't got the proper training or grounding to kind of work in that way?
Speaker 2:yeah, absolutely. But more than anything, I think the biggest takeaway from my training and they really kind of ride this point home was that, well, self-energy like that is the safest way to practice and health energy is so healing, not self-like parts. Self-energy because there is a difference and we often have self-like parts that can come in. Um also not pushing past protectors and really honoring the system, but knowing your own parts and knowing that when your parts have popped up in session because they do your clients might say something that's they might tell you something to happen. That's very traumatic and you have parts that come up because we're human, of course we do. But being able to just quickly attend to that part and just say, hey, I see you in your mind and come back to the session with the client.
Speaker 2:Just let that part be there, but you can stay in self like that's the safest way to practice. Um, yeah, that, and I guess lots of experience. I'm really lucky in the sense that I learned to practice it for nearly three years and then did my training, so I kind of did it in reverse. Yeah, it was just in this group, but thankfully the women that I practiced with like one of them had very, very severe childhood trauma. Okay, and I didn't realize that at the time. How beneficial that has been for me moving into this work.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and watching her change as well. Like she was so dysregulated at the beginning, every sentence she spoke she would do this big sigh after it because she was just that dysregulated. And then you know, within a few months like she'd stopped doing that and she just was so much more like thoughtful in her, like the way she would speak, and it was amazing.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a beautiful process to be in right when we also see our peers, yeah, absolutely Benefit, and I guess that's probably the co-occurring benefit of working as a therapist that in our own training there's a concurrent usually, I mean, I've always I've tended to be in therapy myself the whole time and I'm still in therapy and, yeah, like watching myself grow and my peers and their learnings and where they're at, and sharing that, I think that that's a beautiful trade-off.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And then, because you're, I guess, in the same space, I have a colleague I work with. We meet once a week and just practice and discuss cases and, you know, support each other. But also we do a little message check-in every day and just say what parts are present for us. And it's like I think, being in those spaces, you create the safe space, they create the safe space, they create the safe space and it's like you then expand your, you're able to expand your energy for that and then you can then hold that for other people like it's quite incredible so, looking at the benefit of that connection with peers, um, yeah, I I had a conversation with another one of.
Speaker 1:For people who don't know, megan and I were both coached by the same person, blake Worrell-Thompson. I'll give him a bit of a plug, which I'm sure he'll be keen to that.
Speaker 1:But one of his friends clients, I guess it's interchangeable talks about the energetic shifts that happen in community and I'm really big on this, mostly because of the experiences I've had in community, whether it's in meditation or breath work or women's circles, and I think that moves towards even just those, like you know, when it's you and a colleague and you're both, you know caring for one another and how much that can protect you energetically in general. So I guess for listeners it's really about creating these communities around you where people really believe in you and love you and care for you, and also how how that can translate into better health and better wellness and it's so healing.
Speaker 2:And when I was, um, if you're familiar, sharon stanley, she's like a somatic therapist. One of her books it's incredible I think it's called body-centered practices for healing trauma or something like that. But she talks about we experience trauma in relationships and we can't heal that on her, on our own. We have to heal that in safe relationships and that's like where our brains create those neural pathways.
Speaker 2:And often most of us grew up like particularly our generation love was conditional and it was like if you're not well behaved or if you don't do exactly as I say, then like we receive these messages that were unlovable and that's traumatic. Like whether people want to acknowledge it or not it is, and to be able to start to show up in your adult life in community where we're not and I definitely experienced this in my kind of group with Blake when I was working with him like it was like I could show up in this group setting and not just be accepted or tolerated but be celebrated for my authentic self. Like there's something so healing about that and I think that I really think there is a culture shift really starting to happen with that. People are starting to understand that and move towards that again which is beautiful.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's what I'm obsessed with is creating community and linking people in with each other and uh, yeah, I'm like yeah, I think one of the most wonderful and difficult things about me is my intensity, but I also see those parts as being beautiful and very protective of myself and of others and wanting. You know, I think, those protector parts in me that want healing for me and then also want to heal others, and part of that is learning that that's not my choice, that people have the choice, and I'm just here to go. Here's what I'm offering, here's what I'm offering, here's what Megan's offering, here's what you know, blake or whoever it is, is offering. And would you like to come along for the ride? Like in saying that, for people who are interested in looking at IFS or starting an IFS journey, where do you recommend they begin?
Speaker 2:So you can look at. There's the IFS Institute website. That's got some resources. Richard Schwartz has written a lot of books. There's also some other practitioners who are very well known that have wrote about IFS. Frank Anderson is one of them. He's a psychiatrist in America and he's just incredible. There's loads of podcasts out there. I'm a real big fan of Bessel van der Kolk's work as well, and he speaks about IFS in the body. Keeps the score. Um, I write about IFS on my blog. I mean, these are all personal, you know viewpoints, but if you wanted to check that out, you could. Um, but yeah, ifs institute also, if you wanted to find a practitioner in your local area, there's a list of practitioners all around the world that practice IFS, and also online ones as well.
Speaker 1:And if people want to work specifically with you, how do they find you? How should they reach?
Speaker 2:out to you. Yeah, so I spend a lot of time on Instagram and my Instagram is mentalhealthcoachmegs and my website is just meganpasherbeckcomau. Okay, and you can find all my blog. How to work with me. Yeah, all my kind of coaching packages and things like that okay, and you can book a discovery call if you just want to have a chat and find out more about it. And, amazing, discuss your specific like challenges and things you want to work through and I've seen on your website.
Speaker 1:You know people can commit for different levels of um you know kind of therapy one session or by blocks of sessions so it sounds like people can kind of engage with you in a way that feels like resonates for them, um, in terms of, I guess, something that people could start looking at, um, in terms of I guess something that people could start looking at in terms of starting to explore their parts, like, is there any simple exercises that that you would recommend to people to start initiating this journey for themselves?
Speaker 2:yeah, sure, like there's. Well, you can a start to use parts language. So just start thinking of yourself in parts and whenever you have an emotion come up or a thought, even a thought, oh, what part of me is thinking that, like, you might notice a judgment coming. Like, oh, there's a part of me that thinks that, like, just get curious. It's also, if you've got small children, it's a beautiful thing to practice with them. So when they're getting really overwhelmed with their big emotions, sitting with them and going, oh, there's a part of you that feels angry, tell me about that. Like, getting them to identify that there's a part of them. It's so beautiful and such a beautiful tool to share with them and start to get them to think of it that way. Um, and also there's loads of meditations. I've got like a free one on my website that we can download. I've got like an e-book on your inner critic, but there's a free inner critic meditation if people want to use that. Amazing.
Speaker 2:There's also loads of IFS meditations. Even Richard Schwartz has some on Insight Timer. Okay, and yeah, like, there's loads of podcasts out there. I mean, even if you search, like Richard Schwartz, he's been interviewed loads. Frank Anderson speaks about IFS a lot. Even Gabby Bernstein like. She's written a book on IFS, I think it's called Self Love. Okay, okay, yeah. Loads of resources out there that you can explore.
Speaker 1:As I said before, the IFS Institute is a good website that will lead you to other avenues as well yeah, okay, amazing, and I guess, looking back now, if you could kind of tell that you know, was it 19 when you were with the with, with the psychiatrist getting that diagnosis?
Speaker 2:oh no, that was like it was in 2019, 2019.
Speaker 1:So it was like I think I was like 35, okay, okay, okay like if you could go back and tell that younger version of yourself anything like like what would you have wanted to know back then? That you know now that that would have been really helpful for you at that time.
Speaker 2:I guess, just like in terms of the bipolar, like I would have if I knew, like Kelly Brogan existed, who is a psychiatrist if you're not familiar, she's a psychiatrist who swore by prescribing and thought she was doing the right thing, but she's gone the other way now. Now she looks into nutrition and supplementation and healing your stuff and she's written a load of books. But like I guess her work, but also just I would probably just tell my younger self you don't need to listen to another person, you just need to heal. Like you just need to heal. And I hadn't even not fully acknowledged what I needed to heal back then I didn't have much self-compassion at all, but like if I could tell her anything like you just need to heal, go, take care of yourself and the rest will take care of itself.
Speaker 1:I even like at the start of this conversation it's not on camera or pod you talked about this notion of being selfish and I wonder you know how much even just being with yourself back then may have been experienced by some of your parts or your protectors as being disallowed or and this is kind of like the interesting part in our work, right?
Speaker 1:is that in peeling back the layers, in doing that excavation that you described, it does really show us, oh like, wow, there's all these kind of layers of things I've learned, ways I thought I was meant to behave, like experiences I've had that have distanced me from my parts, that have distanced me from my exiles, from my protectors, from myself, like, is there anything that you want to kind of leave listeners with as we finish up today, megan?
Speaker 2:I think, the biggest piece and I think this is the absolute key to healing and without it you won't get to where you need to go. And this might be really hard for some people to hear, or their protectors, but the key is self-compassion. And even if you can just get like a millimeter of it to begin with, like that is the thing, like, and often a lot of us don't have that or don't have access because we were never shown that, we were never shown compassion. So how could we possibly give ourselves compassion when we were never offered that? But like that's the thing that we need to learn and I think that if everybody could access self-compassion, like imagine, imagine what the world would be like, because when we can access self-compassion, we can access true compassion for others. And this isn't sympathy or a I feel sorry for you or any of that, like energy, because, let's be honest, like that can feel a little bit ick to be on the receiving end of.
Speaker 2:Awfully yeah, but like genuine compassion, where we're not getting snowed under by someone else's stuff, but we can just sit with them and be with them in whatever they're going through and be like, yeah, man, that sucks and I feel you and sometimes that's the most healing thing you know people just being able to be seen in that.
Speaker 1:Oh, 100%, and I think you touched on it earlier in therapy or in relationship or in a group container or whatever means you look at doing this healing that often it's in the that mirrored self-compassion. And this was transformational for me with my own therapist, seeing how his compassion for you know, all the parts of me that I had denied, been ashamed of, repressed, and just seeing how he held it in just his tender, loving care, I was like, oh my gosh, I can do that too. Like what a gift. Oh, I, I credit him with just um, so much of my healing and just have so much unreal gratitude to him. And yeah, anyway, you know, like you have these people in your life who come in and you're like you've really transformed my life and I don't think you can ever fully appreciate how much that is. And yeah, I think it's a real gift as a therapist also then to be able to offer that space to clients. But I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart, um, for coming, because I know you've come also from the Sunshine Coast, which is a huge journey to the Gold Coast. It looks close on a map but it's actually like a huge commitment and I'm um, when people give me their time, I just see that as one of the most beautiful gifts, because it's just such a precious resource and so I'm so incredibly grateful.
Speaker 1:So, for listeners, you can reach out to Megan on Instagram through her website. I'll put links to everything at the bottom of the YouTube. It'll also be on the bio for this podcast episode. Thank you so much for being here. If anyone wants to work with me, my website is wwwzensohousecom or I'm on Instagram at Zenso House. Thank you, thank you.
